Lo, Children Are a Heritage of the Lord
Devon and Ken Carpenter were interviewed by Nightline about their family of eight children and their convictions about birth control. We visited with the Carpenters in San Antonio and Virginia, and they have a sweet family which works together, learns together, and worships together. It was fun to see them in action at home, though poor Devon had a toothache during the interview.
The report (about the “Quiverfull movement,” a rubric I have never adopted) seemed fairly even-handed. The life some of us have chosen—God controlling our fertility, homeschooling, and even moms being homekeepers and willingly submitting to the proper authority of their husbands—is very counter-cultural and appears strange to onlookers. It helps to see it through the world’s eyes sometimes, if only to understand how perplexing and odd we appear to many people. The challenge, which I believe it is important to accept, is to live and explain our biblical convictions with patience and grace. It is easy to get riled when we are mocked for how we live, but how we live is seen by some as a threat to how they live, especially if they live lives expressing an ideology that rejects any claim of God on their existence.
This is evident from reading just a few of the viewers’ comments on the Nightline segment. Many of them sound the same broken record negative remarks: “Stepford Wives,” “Handmaid’s Tale,” “overpopulation,” “male dominance,” “breeders.” A few nice comments, too, but hard to find among the vitriol. Like buried treasure 
.
It’s tough enough going against the flow without having rotten tomatoes thrown at you while you are swimming upstream. Our primary responsibility is to teach those little fish how to properly swim around the shoals and among the sharks. This is a big job, and one which requires total dependence upon our Maker, who made us male and female and who sovereignly planned each child He gives, from the beginning of time. When we gladly—and imperfectly, confessing our failures as well as telling about our victories—serve the Lord in our homes and families, we are shining a light in a dark place. Some will be pulled to that light like moths gathered around a glowing window. Others will be repulsed, as the light causes their dark-dilated eyes to squint tightly shut.
As you labor in your little vineyard, praying for a bountiful harvest among your children, don’t forget that others are watching your labors, and pray that they will be blessed by your example and your exhortations. You may not have an audience as big as the one the Carpenters had, but you do have an audience, and I’m not just talking about the one gathered around your table each day.
January 5th, 2007 at 5:58 am
You know Carmon, I can’t say that we have ever gotten a negative comment out in the world. Most people seem to respond well to our large family. We did have quite a bit of trouble among Christians in the early years when we were insecure. I think there is a big difference between a non-christian meeting a large family in real life and just seeing a story about them on the TV.
January 5th, 2007 at 7:39 am
What is very frustrating as a Christian is having people in the Quiverful movement act as if they have all the answers and if you don’t agree with them you are less of a Christian and not believing what is plainly in the Bible. Many theologians disagree with Quiverful so it really isn’t as plain as some want to make it. I have no issue with those who seek God’s will and believe that “quiverful” is what He wants for them. I take issues when fellow Christian don’t grant me the same liberty. Quiverful is turning into a very “cultic” movement. A Christian better not dare speak against it or they are labeled anti-child, selfish, and worldly.
January 5th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Carmon- I love reading your blog! Just when I am feeling down, You seem to have great words of encouragement. thank you.
January 5th, 2007 at 8:40 am
It is very easy to get distracted by “detractors” and get our eyes off the main job we have as workers in the vineyard, vessels for the fulfilling of His grand plan. Thank the Lord for His sovereignty and His perfect Word. What a wonderful, encouraging post to keep our focus where it belongs!
January 5th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Casey:
Cultic?
If I say “I believe the bible teaches that we should baptize only believers” or “I believe the bible teaches that all covenant members including children should be baptized” which of those statements is cultic?
The Carpenters have a conviction which they state–they believe that birth control is wrong. It may not be that simple, but consider their arguments, read the Scriptures and see what the Holy Spirit does with it. Examine the motives for not having children (though not using birth control does not equal having a big family–I know lots of small families who have never used birth control too). Examine the motives for having children. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you what the Word says.
If your convictions come up different than mine, so be it. Who am I to judge another man’s servant. I agree that this is not as clear cut as some other issues (like abortion, for instance) but it is important and the Carpenters are following through with their convictions.
I’ve never known anyone to look down on a brother because he doesn’t share this belief–all of us are growing in grace together. I know the Carpenters and they are certainly not coming at this with a judgmental overbearing attitude. They love Jesus and believe that they serve Him in doing this. And God has blessed them in it. Rejoice with them.
There *are* those who are not having children for selfish reasons. There are those who are having big families out of pride. Your response with throwing the “cult” word around does not say to me that you’re trying to examine this but that you’re offended by their convictions. And just as I ask myself, who am I–who are you to judge another man’s servant? Rejoice in the growth of Christ’s Church and may it be for His glory!
January 5th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Carmon, I stayed up to watch that and thought it was on okay piece, but one thing bugged me was the insistance that the house was “chaotic”, which I never saw. Another thing, I had been reading The Way Home again earlier in the day and she hit on a point about people asking about the health of women who have many children. The interviewer did this, as well as the pastor they interviewed! The evidence is overwhelmingly clear that women who despise their heritage and use birth control and/or abortion to get out of having babies are at a much higher risk for female cancers, while women who have many babies and breastfeed them significantly reduce their risk for these cancers.
Regarding “many theologians” that believe birth control is acceptable, I would suggest doing a study on the history of this matter. This is a good place to start http://www.valerieslivingbooks.com/history.htm. If you believe that you are being spoken to harshly now for your belief, you will be shocked to see what Augustine, Luther, and Calvin taught about those who partook in birth control.
The only theologians in Church history who have believed that birth control is an acceptable and normal practice are those alive today who are living in a time fraught with anti-scriptural, liberal, false teachings. Birth control was not introduced into the Church by God-fearing men who took a serious study of the full counsel of God and came to the conclusion that the Godly men over the last 6,000 year were wrong!!! It was introduced by the likes of Margaret Sanger and other god-hating men and women who stated purpose for the introduction was anti-Christian and racist!
January 5th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Like I said, you have all the answers, and men like John Piper and Al Mohler know nothing about the Bible.
January 5th, 2007 at 9:43 am
I will respond more later when I have more time, but this quote by Hermann Bavinck from Valerie’s research (which Nickey linked above) expresses some of my feelings on this controversial issue, showing how God can use our children in a powerful way to aid in our sanctification:
January 5th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Because this is controversial, I want to point out the “speak kindly” button is there as a reminder to do just that. Discussion, fine, but no angry outbursts or I will delete the comment.
January 5th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Here’s an honest question and I don’t mean to come off as snarky. Why bother studying your Bible anymore since men like Augustine, Luther, and Calvin already figured it all out for you? The Reformers wee incredible heros of he church, but that doesn’t make them infalliable. For instance I believe they were totally wrong on infant batptism and other things. I’ve never met anyone who agrees 100% with any of them. Aren’t we all supposed to be allowed to study the Scripture for ourselves with the help of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately, if a Christian says I’ve studied and prayed and I just don’t agree with the Quiverful interpretation we’re branded as anti-scriptural, liberal, and believing false teachings. It’s amazing how many people out there have been given the ability to search the hearts and souls of men and dertimine that they are lacking spiritually. I thought only God was allowed to do that. Again it’s very cultic in nature, if you disagree you’re going to get jumped and labled worldly.
January 5th, 2007 at 9:51 am
Casey, I think James properly points out that good men (and women) disagree about many theological issues (and there are plenty of bad “theologians” who use the scissors method of exegesis, as well). As a presbyterian, I do not agree with Piper and Mohler on infant baptism, but I appreciate other things they might teach. It is important to discuss all these issues, particularly ones that are so immediate and have a direct and visible impact on our lives and culture, in a calm and biblical manner, not dismissing a position because it is hard to accept in these “enlightened” times, nor hammering home a point because we are “homier than thou.”
January 5th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Like Cindy, we too have never received any negative comments while out in public. Fortunately, folks have always been very kind and sweet to us (thought that’s not to say our time for public scorn isn’t still ahead; but if and when it does happen it really won’t phase me — I just don’t get ruffled by things like that).
I really, really appreciate Ken’s emphasis on the fact that entrusting one’s womb to the Lord’s sovereignty is NOT a contest. Though I do get excited (without apology) about the idea of lots and lots of children for Christian families to train for the Lord and to love others and evangelize the world for Christ, I think it’s so very important to continually remind folks that it’s about presenting our bodies as living sacrifices and TRUSTING the Lord, not just “cranking out” as many babies as we can, as fast as possible.
I can’t help but keep count of my children. I have to count them several times a day to be sure no one’s lost, been left behind or getting into mischief! The number of children I have is ever-present on my mind, out of neccessity. But sometimes I sense other believers assuming that we think it’s a competition about numbers and that makes me sad. I don’t like it when others assume to know what’s in my heart.
Because there is a risk for others to misunderstand our motivations, I think more than ever PRIDE needs to be kept in check for those of us who trust the Lord with the number and spacing of our children. We need so much to be genuinely humble before the Lord and others, especially since we’ve done nothing to deserve these blessings He’s given us. I was very impressed with the real humility I saw demonstrated by the Duggars when I heard them speak at the San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival.
Oh, and poor Devon — I felt so bad that she had a terrible toothache. I know it couldn’t have been easy for her to have a film crew in her home (no matter how used to film crews she may be) and to have to answer questions with poise and grace while dealing with a throbbing mouth.
January 5th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Carmon, what you say is exactly the point I’m trying to make. Unfortunately, I’ve not met many in the “quiverful” community who are not discussng things in a calm biblical manner but resorting to name calling. Are some just being selfish in limiting the number of children they have? Definately! Does that mean we get to label everyone who disagrees with quiverful “selfish” and “anti-child”, do we get to assume that those who don’t agree with us don’t know anything about their Bible? You and I disagree on infant baptism, so do I have the right to name calling? No! I simple say I disagree and if you tell you’ve searched the Scriptures and this is what you believe then I must leave it at that. Period. No name calling, no assuming on my part that you are less of a Christian than me because I have a different view. No one is saying you should dismiss or deny your position, but unfortunately their are many in the “quiverful” who think that is exactly what “non-quiverful” Christians need to do.
January 5th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Casey, why bother to comment if you have no desire to listen to the response??? No one here has claimed to have all the answers but the evidence speaks for itself. We are the *only* generation in the entire history of the Church who believes that birth control is acceptable and normal. Why is this??? Is our generation more godly, more biblically minded, more in tune with scripture than men like Calvin and Luther? Did the theologians of today honestly sit down and say to themselves, the church has always believed this way, but we believe they are wrong because scripture says x?
I have studied this issue for the last 9 years, reading hundreds of books and articles on the matter, who positions vary on all sides and whose authorship spans the time of thousands of years. I have read books by Sanger, I have read the transcripts of the first counsel on birth control in a US church, I have gone over the scriptures many thousands of times. I pray about the matter nearly every single day. I don’t take my position lightly. It is a *very* difficult place to be in. Not only does the outside world look on us as though we were crazy, we get called all sorts of names by those in the Church who claim to be our brothers and sisters. It would be much *easier* to be on your side. We would not have to endure the stares, whispers, name calling, meaness and rudeness of those around us. We would not have to endure the horrific judgements that go along with a family who has many children. When a child acts up that is an only child or maybe the second, many cute excuses are offered. When one of my 4 children acts up, it is because I have my hands full. When anything goes “wrong” for us, it is because we have too many children.
You come here and accuse us (those who believe birth control is sin) as being unrighteously judgemental of those who disagree with us. You accuse us of being cultic. What do you base these accusations on??? Is it cultic to state ones beliefs??? You are thoroughly convinced of your opinion. Why can’t we be???
January 5th, 2007 at 10:28 am
Casey, the reason we appeal to men like Augustine, Luther, and Calvin are not because they are perfect nor because they are authoritative, but because they can give us a perspective that we might not otherwise have. Our glasses are clearly colored by a culture that assumes birth control is normal! When we go to the scriptures we go with our glasses on. We look at scripture in a manner that assumes that birth control is okay and we believe that the only way that we are going to know otherwise is if scripture clearly condemns birth control. (Obviously it does not say “Thou shalt not use birth control.”)
We worship and learn about God as a community of believers and this community includes all of church history. We know perfectly well that the world loves and promotes birth control and small families. We know perfectly well that the current church is a mess. Therefore it would be wise of us to take on the counsel of men in the Church whose glasses are not colored by the same perspective as ours. When the church believed something for thousands of years and then all of the sudden stopped believing it, we ought to question why. The men who are quoted on the page I refer to lived thousands and hundreds of years apart from each other. They lived in different countries and spoke different langauges and not one of them fully agreed with anothers theology. But they all agree with each other on this matter? Why? Before we decide that the Church was wrong on something of this importance, we better be very certain that we are right and that we are coming to our conclusion from a purely scriptural position and not from our cultural beliefs, emotions, and personal experiences.
January 5th, 2007 at 10:28 am
What’s cultic is when someone states an opposing belief and everyone jumps on them. I am thorougly convinced of my opinion and I get tired of “Christians” telling me that I am worldly, disobedient, living in sin, not trusting God and the list goes on and on. I have not made one comment against anyone here who has decided to be quiverful. What I am pointing out is how many times a non-quiverful person will get jumped on just like this. Be convinced of your opinion and I respect that, but when you start calling me names because I don’t agree with you? No, not Christ-like. the point isn’t to be quiverful or not. The point is how do you treat fellow Christians who interpret the Bible differently than you do. A cult allows no dissent and will quickly gang up on anyone trying to voice a different opinion.
January 5th, 2007 at 10:29 am
“Casey, why bother to comment if you have no desire to listen to the response???”
Please forgive me for this. It was out of line.
January 5th, 2007 at 10:31 am
And Nicky are you really trying to “hear” what I’m saying. As far as why mean who lived century’s ago all believed the same thing it may just happen to be because of the cultural and the historical times they were living in.
January 5th, 2007 at 10:33 am
Carmon, thank you for allowing my comments to be seen here. I’m very disaapointed in many of these so called Christian blogs who have absolutely no tolerance for fellow Christians who disagree with them. I’ll leave you all to your Rah Rah Quiverful time and let’s figure out new ways to insult those who disagree with us even if they may be fellow Christians.
January 5th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Casey, I have not seen anyone calling you names. But sin is sin. If we believe that something is sin, we can not simply ignore it, because you don’t happen to believe what you are doing is wrong. I would be glad to listen to your reasoning and discuss the matter with you, but without a fully reasoned argument from scripture I can not and will not agree with you that you are free do as you please in this matter. I believe that those who use birth control are in sin and I will NOT say otherwise. In the words of Luther – Here I stand, I can do no other.
Being “quiverful” is about more than having a lot of children. It is about more than using or not using birth control. It has to do with the very core of our purpose in existing, in the very purpose of creation and marriage. IMO, those in the Church today who have written in favor of birth control, have failed to address many very important issues on the matter and they largely appeal to the appearance of silence of the scriptures and emotional, social, and experiental reasoning.
January 5th, 2007 at 10:53 am
“I’ll leave you all to your Rah Rah Quiverful time and let’s figure out new ways to insult those who disagree with us even if they may be fellow Christians.”
There has not been a single response to you to merit this accusation. Not one person here has called you a name, nor stated any rude thing toward your position. I believe you are in sin if you are engaged in the practive of birth control. I will not say otherwise. But that statement is not rude name calling and if you believe it is, then you surely have more important things to be studying.
“who lived century’s ago all believed the same thing it may just happen to be because of the cultural and the historical times they were living in.”
I have already answered this elsewhere. But again, it is another false argument. These men lived over period of 6,000 years. They did not know one another. The lived on different continents, spoke different languages. They were not living in times ignorant of birth control, either. Birth control in many different forms has been around for thousands of years. In actuality the only men in the church to embrace birth control wholesale are men living on one continent, speaking one language, living in the last hundred years. What is so special about these men? What is so great about their theology that they and they alone have come to the conclusion that birth control is acceptable and normal?
January 5th, 2007 at 10:54 am
GOD alone decides what sin is. We know what sin is by reading HIS Words. Not Calvin, Luther, or Augustine. You have the right to say that you believe the Bible says something is sin, you cross the line when you decide that those who disagree with your interpretation are sinners because they don’t come to the same conclusion as you. You do not have the right to judge the hearts and mind of anyone period. Now I’m really finished with this site. Oh and Nicky? Nine years. I’ve studied it for twenty so does that make me more smart than you somehow? I’ve also studied Arminiasm, Calvinism, Pelegiasm, Semi-Peligiasm, Theonomy, and the Christian Reconstructionist Movement along with a few other things. Does that somehow make me an expert? Now I really am done with you people. It’s a shame that no one is out there teaching Christians how to treat other Christians on the internet.
January 5th, 2007 at 10:55 am
Nicky, look up the term Weasel Words. You say it’s a false argument so therefore it must be a false argument is what you expect everyone reading you to believe.
January 5th, 2007 at 11:01 am
“GOD alone decides what sin is. We know what sin is by reading HIS Words”
Clearly! “Be fruitful and multiply” is a command. Birth control is a deliberate attempt to be barren and therefore is a sin. It is that simple.
“is sin, you cross the line when you decide that those who disagree with your interpretation are sinners because they don’t come to the same conclusion as you.”
Really? Where does the scriptures teach that? There are many proffesed Christians who believe that pornography, abortion, adultery, drug use, and more are all acceptable behaviour. They claim to have look at the scriptures and come to this conclusion. So therefore according to you, they are not in sin and for me to say otherwise is wrong.
January 5th, 2007 at 11:08 am
“Nicky, look up the term Weasel Words. You say it’s a false argument so therefore it must be a false argument is what you expect everyone reading you to believe”
It is a false argument because it is historically inaccurate. You claim that these men only believed as they did because of the time they lived in. Why is this argument not equally valid to your position? Why can’t this argument be used against those theologians today who teach that birth control is acceptable and normal?
January 5th, 2007 at 11:22 am
P.S. For anyone who is reading this… A clarification – I am NOT appealing to Calvin, Luther, or any other man because they are authoritative. I believe that scripture clearly teaches in Genesis that we are commanded to be fruitful and multiply. I believe that this is a direct command given to all mankind and that if we believe we are free to do otherwise the burden of proof lies on us to show that God has elsewhere abolished this command or given exception to some people. (I do believe there is an exception – unmarried people may not seek to multiply!)
My appeal to the church fathers is twofold – 1)Because I want people to understand the history of the introduction of birth control into the Church. It was not done by godly men who were motivated to correct the theology of other men before them. It was done by anti-Christ ungodly men and women with horrifically sinful motivations. This alone should cause us to question the motivation of birth control as normal and acceptable practice by Christians. 2)I believe it is folly to assume that men for 6,000 years believed one thing and that this generation in all of it’s ungodliness, has come to a better conclusion by a careful examination of the scriptures.
The historical facts should not be the basis of our theology. What they should do is drive us to the scriptures to reexamine our hearts in light of scripture. To ask ourselves what are we missing. What did the church fathers believe that we no longer believe today? What portion of scripture has caused us to believe they were wrong?
January 5th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
I just came back to check on things after reading to my children. Sadly, I think it’s time to end the discussion. Casey, I don’t know what experiences you have had that warrant your anger over this topic, though I don’t doubt that you have had some bad interactions with people who call themselves “quiverfull.” If you look at the PM Manifesto, you will see that I have several reminders that we are to present our convictions with humility and grace. Nickey has done pretty well at presenting her postion in this way (though she has had trouble in the past containing her zeal when discussing hot-button topics
). There is nothing in the original post to warrant any angry response…it’s mostly an admonition and encouragement to those who consider themselves “quiverfull” to think about the picture they are presenting to a watching world while they labor diligently in the calling God has given them.
The purpose in quoting historical figures (whether Puritans, reformers, church Fathers, founders of our country, etc.) is that often they dealt with similar issues, and even lived through much greater trials, while exhibiting a depth of Christian maturity that is difficult to find in the modern church. They were not perfect, but they did not shy away from applying Scripture to various circumstances in a bold and uncompromising way. Today we have so much seeker-sensitive compromise that has seeped into all corners, we must be very cautious about adopting cultural norms as biblical freedom.
Some questions that must be answered by those who think birth control is lawful for Christians (and these are rhetorical, since this discussion is now ended, and I get to have the last word):
Why, until it was technologically easily obtained, was birth control frowned upon in the Church?
When was the command to be fruitful and multiply rescinded?
If God opens and closes the womb, then can you truly say that there is ever a child born that God did not plan?—conception is always an act of God.
What are the implications of Christians universally limiting their family size (no difference between the national average and size of families in the Church) when Muslims are having very large families and have conquered Europe (once known as Christendom) with a rather frightening demographic reality?
As we look at those declining birthrates of western nations, what does that tell us about God’s blessing and cursing in light of Deuteronomy 28:62, 63 (see also this article by E. Calvin Beisner—this is a must read.)
Is bearing children a major purpose of marriage?
Why did God create women (forgive the bluntness, and no rude responses, please) with a womb and with breasts, if not for the purpose of bearing children?
Is not the onus on those who would limit children through artificial means to show that such is pleasing and acceptable to God, when He commands husbands and wives to “not deprive one another” (I Cor. 7:5) and to bear a godly seed (Malachi 2:15)?
From a 20th century apologist (quoted in Valerie’s link), A.W. Tozer, a man who was quite humble and far from “cultic,” on being careful to seek our answers to tough questions from Scripture, not culture:
Make sure to read this Scriptural defense from Valerie, which is linked from the first page of quotes about birth control.