What Is That Wind at My Back?
An admonishment from Charles Spurgeon:
Don’t be the Devil’s bellows any longer to blow up the fires of strife. Leave off setting people by the ears. If you do not cut off a bit of your tongues, at least season them with the salt of grace. Praise God more and blame neighbors less. Any goose can cackle; any fly can find out a sore place; any empty barrel can give forth sound; any brier can tear a man’s flesh. No flies will go down your throat if you keep your mouth shut and no evil speaking will come up. Think much, but say little; be quick at work and slow at talk; and above all, ask the great Lord to set a watch over your lips.
November 23rd, 2007 at 5:10 am
For the purpose of sparking some discussion, here are a couple of opened-ended comments:
Prov 20:19 – *A gossip (person or thing) betrays a confidence;*
Sooooo, if no confidence is betrayed are the words or is the person *gossip*?
And the title to an interesting lecture/journal article:
“Gossip in Jane Austen’s Novels†A pursuit, a pleasure, and often a passion, gossip plays a crucial role in Austen’s work. As a plot device, informal source of information, or underground support system, the legitimate role of gossip in the novels possesses social and narrative power.
Not shopping today,
Dana in GA
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:11 am
Carmon,
I have honestly been wondering also if there is a way for Christians to have uplifting debates on topics of sincere disagreement. I know that there are people who resort to personal attacks and I don’t guess you can totally avoid them but there must be a way for genuine differences to be discussed without name calling. But then again maybe the Internet is just not the place for it. Maybe we have to resort to our own homes and hospitality for those deep waters.
As you know I was accused of slander last year for doing a curriculum review. I was so surprised by that accusation because I thought it was ok to disagree and it wasn’t unchristian to do so.
So I would love to discuss what it means to be a gossip in more depth and especially Dana’s questions.
Not shopping today II, Cindy
November 23rd, 2007 at 8:10 am
Cindy,
I think you’re right; the best place to discuss these matters would be face to face in our own homes, practicing hospitality. Good, strong coffee spurs on great conversation! There’s something about looking someone in the eye, listening to the tone of their voice, and seeing their facial expressions that helps us to communicate. Typically, people are more polite in person too.
That being said, God used the Internet in my life to teach me all kinds of things. There’s something about being able to “debate” a topic with your Bible software at your fingertips that is really stimulating – sometimes too stimulating! I have been “won over” by friends on the Internet on various topics by good, friendly and godly email exchange.
But too many times it’s easier for us to “speak harshly” or accuse others from behind a keyboard than it is face to face. Thus things are said that misrepresent, slander, and harm – dishonoring God. Once that happens, folks become gun shy and prefer not to interact.
Many of us have passionate opinions on various biblical topics, so it’s difficult to debate online without the conversation eventually disintegrating into something less than honorable to the Lord.
I love to discuss what I believe, either in person or on the Internet. However, my time online is limited by real life, so I am careful with how I spend it. I have had very fruitful conversations fleshing out all sorts of “controversial” topics. I love deep thinkers and it’s good for us as Christians to be challenged. Iron sharpens iron. However, the setting has to be well moderated by someone who has the time and the inclination to take that responsibility, so that personal attacks and trolls aren’t allowed.
November 23rd, 2007 at 11:06 am
Cindy, I was hoping you would be the one to give the definitive answers to those question
.
My cursory opinion this morning is that when talking about controversies or people, online or in person, we must evaluate (which takes time!) these things: jurisdiction, authority, and motivation. Is it our place to be talking about the subject, do we have something to do with the circumstance that would properly contribute to making it better? Are we in a position of authority to teach, rebuke, or encourage in that particular instance? If the answer is yes to those questions, then is our desire to love all those involved and be a peacemaker, or do we use our platform to mock and belittle those who disagree with us?
There is no hard and fast answer here. We all fail to meet these criteria at times, I’m sure. We all prefer ourselves above others and make hasty judgments. There is a place for firm, not wimpy, words and holding the line when it comes to God’s truth, but not with scorn and pride in our demeanor. As Stacy and you both note, it is hard to have the proper kinds of discussions online as it’s too easy to hide behind the anonymity (even when using one’s own name) and carelessly wielding our words like sharp objects.
In addition, I know that it takes time to write (or keep up with) multitudinous comments, let alone write thoughtful blog posts. Yesterday was Thanksgiving, a feast day when we all enjoy eating more than we normally do. That’s a fine thing, but if we eat that way every day, it’s not only unhealthy, but it would even be sinful gluttony. If we are prone to that sin, we are wise if we don’t tempt ourselves by keeping rich foods in our cupboards. Likewise, it’s best to use moderation when engaging in “discussion.” I am very glad that I am too busy to be having such discussions, because that is a great temptation to me, to argue my point and set everyone straight. I think too many women find an excuse why such behavior is all right in their case. We must examine our hearts to see if we are building up or tearing down in our speech.
Dana, I think that’s part of the definition of gossip, but here’s just one I was thinking of when using that word:
In Jane Austen’s time, I believe the verb meant more being able to talk with a close friend about many things, sharing confidences, but the noun may have implied someone who betrays those confidences.
November 23rd, 2007 at 11:07 am
P.S. I’m not out shopping either, but I may be going for a drive on this beautiful fall day.
November 23rd, 2007 at 11:27 am
I have been in a few online debates, some of the people I debated were able to debate well, and others not so well.(FYI, I am not referring to any recent incidents here, but those on a message board I helped to moderate) Those debates helped me in several ways: 1) I had to study out what I believed in order to defend it, 2)I had to learn to separate my topic from the person I was debating (no personal attacks), 3) I had to learn charity and forgiveness for those who did not follow rule #2 4) It challenged me to learn to be firm in what I said while always working to say it with kindness.
Gene and I were just talking about some of this last night. I don’t mind at all if people disagree with my stance on things, some of my favorite people and I disagree strongly on things such as doctrine… and I don’t feel the need to try to bring them to my side. That doesn’t mean I won’t state my position, but we can agree to disagree. My biggest rule when having a discussion on something controversial is to remember to attack the position, not the person. When I
say attack, I don’t mean in any way to do so with malice, you can attack with kindness. But, the only thing we should address is their position, and we have to be able to do so without taking up an offense. Many people seem offended if you don’t agree with them, and I am clueless as to why that is. I know three of you (Carmon, Stacy & Cindy) well enough to know that our doctrine varies (but not on essentials of the faith), and while we probably wouldn’t attend the same church if we lived in the same city (actually, Stacy used to live down the road from me), we would all have a great time sitting over coffee having a long deep conversation. I daresay our families would probably think we had gone MIA.
Sorry, I’m rambling let me get back to my point; if we love Christ, we should love one another in the same way. I can show you the love of Christ, while still disagreeing with you. And just for the record, I think Carmon showed the love of Christ when correcting behavior in those that claim Christ, but whose actions don’t reflect Him. We aren’t showing the love of Christ when we let people wallow in their sin. Gal 6:1-2 addresses this, we are told if our brethren is in sin to restore that person with meekness. In writing this a thought just struck me. I know that I’ve thought about the need to be careful in what we say online because inflection and such can’t be seen. What just hit me when looking at those verses was; Paul wrote every word, and he said some very strong things. I think we should be able to admonish one another, but we must always do so with love. That does not mean saying a couple of nice things… so that you can then slam the person to whom you are referring. I think the 4 of us, having been on the receiving end of this, would not mind being admonished IF the person doing the admonishment didn’t make it personal, kept to the topic, didn’t have an agenda they were trying to fulfill, and if those who are doing the “admonishing” are doing it with a spirit of true concern, not being busybodies.
So, after all of this, my answer to Dana would be no, it’s not gossip. We need to be careful of slander, but disagreeing with someone isn’t slander. God judges our hearts and that’s what we have to look at. What is our intent? Is it wrong to say I disagree with something or someone? Should I be able to say that I have a different view on something than say, Carmon does? Yes, I should, but I have to be able to it without belittling Carmon. The problem I’m seeing with these trolls is; they tend to fly in, say something snarky about what you believe or are doing, often trying to disguise it with a few nice words, and then they fly out again.
November 23rd, 2007 at 11:31 am
P.S. I’m not shopping either!!!!! Wish I could go on a beautiful drive, we are having a cold, wet, dreary day here. But that makes it a wonderful day for hot cider!
November 23rd, 2007 at 11:52 am
I kind of liked your mantra *Non Gossip Week* …in the spirit of *turn off the TV week, no?
It does seem like there could be two separate issues here: the sin of gossip and the proper way to discuss controversial issues.
I actually was thinking that Carmon was hoping for a moratorium on gossiping.
Now that I’ve clarified my topic, I have another open-ended question.
Is it gossip if it is something I would say to the person *in person*, albeit critical, but have yet to have the opportunity?
November 23rd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Isn’t there a little verse about “Whatsoever things are. . .”? That may be a great criteria for our speech, don’t you think?
Carmon, where did you get your sparkly top???
We went shopping in Old Salem which is quite different than mall shopping.
It feeds the soul to be there. We bought little picks to put into our advent wreath as well as Moravian coffee mix!
November 23rd, 2007 at 5:37 pm
I bought it at the thrift store, of course
. It’s something I wear for exercising, something which I need to be doing again after all I ate yesterday. I can’t resist pecan pie.
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:00 pm
“Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.” Ephesians 4:29
‘Twould be a good guideline, yes?
Great topic, Carmon.
Sylvia(inBC)
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:17 pm
I’m with Tarheel mama and Sylvia.
Happy Thanksgiving, Carmon.
Love,
R.
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Wonderful guidelines, straight from Scripture. Thank you, ladies. Happy Thanksgiving to you, Ruthanne. I love the pictures you ladies have emailed and posted of Thanksgiving tables. I’m busy with my family but will try to do the same soon.