Wake Up and Smell the Manipulation
Some of our friends have a silly and rather crude game they play when they go out for Chinese food and read their “fortunes” on the little slips of paper in the cookies at the end of the meal. Whatever the paper reads, they add, “…in the bathroom.” “You will soon meet a mysterious stranger…in the bathroom.” “You will have great success in your career…in the bathroom.” You get the idea.
I thought of this game the other night when listening to shrill Hillary Clinton give her final concession speech—the one where she reluctantly pretended to be on Obama’s team—at the Democrats’ convention in Colorado. We don’t watch television so it was the only speech from the convention I heard as I was alone and on the way home from taking my dad to the airport; I turned on the radio and listened in maudlin fascination as the deluded woman promised the moon while ironically blaming the current administration for the massive national debt. Of course, she promised universal health care and took credit for dreaming up the idea which was her pet project as first lady, as well as promising clean energy, affordable college, ending discrimination, and other pie-in-the-sky campaign promises which prompted me to make up a variation of the fortune cookie game. Every time you hear a politician promise something they will do for you if you elect them to office, add these words to the end of the promise:
…at the point of a gun.
Where does the money come from for all these things? What if you decide you don’t want free health care, government grants for college, public school for your children, or social “security” in your old age? Can you tell the IRS to take a hike? Yes, that’s a rhetorical question. We all know that jack-booted thugs, or a reasonable facsimile, will show up at your door if you should choose to be so uppity and refuse to participate in the government’s largesse. Did you think that Hillary was going to open her Gucci bag and generously throw about her own personal wealth?
We all nod sagely and sadly and bemoan the fact that the former Wicked Witch of the White House and her socialist cronies might get their clutches on the oval office once again. I don’t want it to happen, and most of those reading this don’t want that to happen, either. But lo, and behold: hard on the heels of Hillary gloating over her historic speech given on the anniversary of the 19th amendment granting women the right to vote, and coming within shouting distance of that coveted place (oh, how she coveted it!), her thunder was stolen when McCain pulled a fast one on her and Obama.
He announced that his vice presidential candidate would be a woman.
Alaska governor Sarah Palin was a brilliant choice from a strategic viewpoint. Hillary and candidate Obama had just finished outlining their plan for a socialist utopia in the midst of a national economic crisis. Disaffected Democrat women didn’t get their feminist dream of a woman in the White House. Evangelical Christians have been dissatisfied with McCain as a Republican candidate and there had been some fingernail biting while waiting to see if he might go with a pro-abortion running mate or (gasp!) even Democrat centrist Joseph Lieberman as his VP choice. The poll numbers show yet another close race, and it had to be someone who could garner some of those nebulous swing votes.
Who better than a pro-life woman?
Oh, how it must have grated Hillary and Obama to praise the “historic” choice of a a female running mate for the Republican ticket. Both were quick to congratulate Governor Palin for receiving this honor. They had no choice because they understand that it is a huge step forward for feminism, and supporting that cause is life-and-death for anyone who wants to be a star in the Democrats’ universe. Governor Palin, a member of Feminists for Life, also understands the huge leap for womankind that her VP candidacy presages. In her first appearance with McCain, using a feminist catch-phrase, she paid homage to Hillary’s reference to putting “18 million cracks” in the nation’s glass ceiling by saying, “It turns out the women of America aren’t finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling.”
Well, it is very true that politics makes strange bedfellows, and the euphoria over McCain’s announcement was overflowing in the Christian and pro-life community, folks who, for good reason, are quite concerned about the ill effects of Democrats controlling the executive branch of the country’s government. From Eagle Forum to Dr. Dobson, from the halls of Patrick Henry College to the shores of Biola in California, we hear hurrahs for the tough “soccer mom” who has wowed everyone with her conservative credentials and her support of the prolife cause, and especially impressive is her willingness to give birth to a precious fifth child which she knew would be born with Down’s syndrome, a diagnosis which is usually a death sentence for babies in utero.
There is a lot to like about the photogenic, telegenic, articulate, conservative, prolife, mother of five, wife of one man for 20 years, governor of Alaska. But I think that Christians who support her for this political office are destroying the prolife movement and harming the cause of families far more profoundly than any of the obvious enemies of those causes who recently met in Colorado.
Why is it that abortion is so prevalent and accepted in America today? What are the reasons that women “choose” to abort their babies rather than give birth to them and mother them? It wasn’t because one day a madness overtook the female sex and caused them to turn on their young. It was much more insidious and slow-moving than that. There are many moments we could point to in history, beginning with Eve’s emancipation by eating the forbidden fruit, for the genesis of the impulse to selfishly rid oneself of every encumbrance, including male headship and clinging children. But I think that the acceptance of abortion can trace its foundations more to Rosie the Riveter than to Roe v. Wade, which was only the culmination of independent roots that finally blossomed into wholesale slaughter of innocent children. Governor Palin leaving her home to become governor of Alaska, and “choosing” to run for second-in-command of the most powerful nation on earth, is not a coup for the prolife cause, despite her personal convictions, but it is the death knell of the the biblical family as an American institution, and will only bring grief to those who are trying to hold together the shreds of that family vision in the midst of a perverse society.
I know that my friends are now thinking that I’m such a party pooper, spouting such depressing nonsense in the midst of such a prolife victory, callooh, callay! Let’s slow down the galumphing for a minute, though, and examine this situation more carefully…
First of all, why would McCain pick Mrs. Palin, an untried figure on the national scene, as his VP running mate? I know that I’m not alone in my cynicism toward politicians, but during election cycles it does seem as if extraordinary madness and the delusion of crowds overtakes otherwise sensible people, particularly when demagoguery (manipulation through fear) is so skillfully used. “If you don’t vote Republican, then it’s a vote for Obama!” Though he voted for the Partial Birth Abortion Act, which prevents a few heinous murders of infants, Senator McCain is no friend to the prolife cause. He and his fellow Republican congressmen never supported Ron Paul’s Sanctity of Life Act which was introduced every year but ignored every time. He did, however, vote year after year to fund Planned Parenthood with federal money. Think he would appoint prolife judges? He voted to approve pro-abortion justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer. And he has been a proponent of stem cell research using the bodies of aborted babies. When the Republicans had control of Congress for six years during the “prolife” Bush administration, why didn’t we see significant gains in the prolife cause? I will tell you…because in order to get elected by gullible evangelicals, the Republicans have to talk the talk at election time and keep the prolife crowd in their hip pocket. If Roe v. Wade is overturned, then they lose that ace in the hole, and the dupes fall for it every election cycle. McCain may be in his 70s, but he is not planning on dying in office. Politicians and journalists both act like they are going to live forever (thus, the shock among the fourth estate when Tony Snow and Tim Russert recently passed on in their 50s, and the reverence accorded Chappaquiddick Ted who has been stricken with brain cancer). As vice president, Sarah Palin will be a figurehead on the cusp of greatness but with no real power, unless she is called upon to break a tie vote in the Senate, and ironically she’ll be the hostess with the mostess, entertaining heads of state at Blair House. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (who is pro-abortion, by the way) ostensibly wields more power than Vice President Dick Cheney (who is pro-homosexual, by the way), though there is some conspiracy-nut speculation that is tempting to believe, that the current VP is the evil genius behind the Bush administration. In other words, Mrs. Palin is a well-calculated sop thrown to the saps who keep pulling the lever for the Republican ticket.
Second, if Christians support putting a woman on this ticket, and she should become president (as our friend Bret points out, McCain is pushing the limits of the average life span of an adult male in America), then we will have done what liberal feminists could only dream of: put a mother of young children—the youngest only four months old right now—into one of the most powerful positions in the world. While fighting the battle for the “traditional” family on the one hand, Christians would also be supporting Madame President whose husband (whom she already fondly refers to as the “First Dude”) and children would take a back seat to much more important matters of state. We will have to turn a blind eye to God’s explicit order for the family, of course, as outlined in places like Titus 2 where women are admonished to be keepers at home and obedient to their own husbands that the word of God not be blasphemed, because we have much greater things at stake, and in this battle it’s appropriate to put our trust in our horses, our chariots, and our swing votes. Once we’ve opened this Pandora’s box—or been complicit in smashing this glass ceiling—then good luck when the pro-abortion feminists use it as a stepping stone to grasp the reins of power. The pragmatic, short-term strategy might come back and bite us and we just might wish we had put our trust in God’s strategy for family order, established at creation, rather than the role-reversal which we find no biblical precedent for encouraging.
Third, I have heard so many parrot the Deborah argument that I am inclined to pick Deborah as my least favorite biblical personality, though I can’t quite bring myself to do that (I do, however, prefer Jael, who stayed at home and used her warm milk strategy to defeat the great General Sisera). I do agree that Deborah was a great woman of God, but she is in no way a role model for Christian women everywhere to claw their way to the top, though discontented Christian women in this feminist climate want to claim her as their patron saint. As a prophetess, she had direct communication with God, who divinely directed her path with special revelation. Such direct revelation is no longer available to Christians, as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes clear. The canon is closed, and we have all we need to direct us about how families should be structured, as well as how to select men to govern us in both the civil and church realms, written in the Holy Spirit-inspired Word of God. Here is what John Calvin said about the Deborah argument, which he must have had to deal with in his day, as well (commenting on I Timothy 2:11-13, quote found at Bayly Blog):
A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
If any one bring forward, by way of objection, Deborah (Judges 4:4) and others of the same class, of whom we read that they were at one time appointed by the command of God to govern the people, the answer is easy. Extraordinary acts done by God do not overturn the ordinary rules of government, by which he intended that we should be bound. Accordingly, if women at one time held the office of prophets and teachers, and that too when they were supernaturally called to it by the Spirit of God, He who is above all law might do this; but, being a peculiar case, this is not opposed to the constant and ordinary system of government.
Though she is not apparently the member of any church, one of the churches Mrs. Palin occasionally worships at is pentecostal (with women in leadership positions, I might add), thus, she may not be averse to an interpretation of the Bible which says God still audibly speaks to people today, but close scrutiny of Scripture does not support such teaching. Deborah’s rule was a shame on the men of Israel, a judgement of God on an apostate nation, and not a model for us to embrace.
Speaking of models, my last argument against supporting this decision is that for the “conservative” crowd to promote the model of family life portrayed by Sarah Palin is hypocrisy of the worst kind, and removes all ability in the future to oppose the liberal agenda which aims to undermine the biblical family model. How clever of Senator McCain, who at one time attacked George Bush for pandering to the “agents of intolerance” in the “Religious Right,” to pander to the same crowd who put Bush in office. By using the one issue which carries the greatest weight with the evangelical voters, McCain may have succeeded in undermining the very group for which he has shown such contempt in the past while using them to achieve his aims.
Does God ordain the means as well as the end? If so, then we are not free to use our own strategies and devices to achieve even the very important goal of ending abortion in this nation. Yes, we are blessed to still be able to use the political process to work toward maintaining (or regaining) freedom for ourselves and our children, and we should vigilantly use those means, but not by being religious vigilantes. God will not bless the aims of feminism, neither the conservative nor the liberal varieties, as the “I did it my way” theology undergirding both leads to death, and can never be prolife. Jesus is still King, no matter who is elected president. Let’s not be like the foolish Israelites and demand another king. That king may make nice promises, but it doesn’t turn out well in the long run.
Essential reading on this issue!
Sarah “Serpico” Palin and the Christian’s Quandary: Part 1 by Pastor Bret McAtee
Sarah “Serpico” Palin and the Christian’s Quandary: Part 2 by Pastor Bret McAtee
Sarah “Serpico” Palin and dthe Christian’s Quandary: Part 3 by Pastor Bret McAtee
John McCain Picks Mother of Five and Member of ‘Feminists for Life’ as VP Candidate by Doug Phillips
A Comparison of Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin’s Speeches on Feminist Political Objectives and Victories to the Men and Women of America by Doug Phillips
Did McCain Make a Pro-Family Pick? by Pastor Voddie Baucham
Woe to My People by Jennie Chancey
August 31st, 2008 at 1:02 am
“…the one where she reluctantly pretended to be on Obama’s team…”
…becuase you can read her mind?
August 31st, 2008 at 1:03 am
“…blaming the current administration for the massive national debt…
yeah those wars aren’t costing much…
August 31st, 2008 at 5:14 am
Thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU…for not drinking the Palin KoolAid!! I have to admit that my initial reaction to the veep announcement was excitement. When I sat down and thought it through, though, I realized how close I had come to being snookered by their scheming.
August 31st, 2008 at 6:43 am
Ha, ha, Laura, I am one of the biggest critics of that unconstitutional war which has nothing to do with retribution for 9/11. If you are a hit and miss commenter who just wants to pick a fight, then I am not going to waste any time trying to explain my positions, but I will remind you that Hillary and Obama both voted to fund that war and initially supported it. I never supported it. Also, you don’t need to be a mind reader to know how much HIllary hated standing up there and giving her support to Obama, you only needed to have listened to her campaign criticisms when he was her adversary, just a few weeks ago.
August 31st, 2008 at 7:23 am
her name is SARAH Palin…but yes, I believe she is a modern day DEBORAH. Freudian slip?
August 31st, 2008 at 7:34 am
Having read this blog, and others of a similar bent, I was certain that this opinion would be out there, it’s interesting to see it confirmed. Local partisan Republican circles near me have been insisting that no, no, this is the perfect candidate that everyone conservative will adore, and I found myself thinking, wait, I wouldn’t be so sure about that!
Good consise wrapup of it.
August 31st, 2008 at 8:15 am
Yes, it was a Freudian slip, LOL! I have fixed it and thank you for pointing it out, though you obviously disagree with my opinion on it. I will write more about Deborahs soon.
August 31st, 2008 at 8:17 am
Let us PRAY the church “wakes up” between now and November. I think it will take more than arguing doctinal (or scriptural) points about woman in leadership on this one given the curcumstances. So many believers are “scared to death of Obama”. It would be merciful of God if Palins weaknesses as the potential leader of the free world would be quickly revealed. Pray He brings things to light quickly and we have the strength to do what is right according to His Word. I for one do not want to see this escalate into a “daughters at home vs. college” or “quiverfull” kind of debate. God’s Word being true, Mrs. Palin’s (or any woman’s for that matter) deficiencies should be easily seen and understood. If we have eyes to see and ears to hear. Praying for seeing eyes and listening ears.
August 31st, 2008 at 10:19 am
LOL! I just came on to see if you had commented yet on the VP choice. I wasn’t disappointed.
My first question when I heard about Palin was, “Who’s taking care of the baby?” I admit a bit of excitement over the ebaying of the jet and the moose hunting. Standing by convictions to have a disabled child gains her points from me and I can understand some enthusiasm from this in today’s age. Beyond that, my initial question is still the first one I want put forward by all the Christians out there who claim a mother at home is the best choice for children, such as Focus on the Family. I need some satisfactory answers, I admit. The inconsistency is grating on my nerves.
August 31st, 2008 at 10:58 am
My first question when I heard about Palin was, “Who’s taking care of the baby?â€
Mine too — I figured she must have an incredibly good extended family support system.
August 31st, 2008 at 1:33 pm
As soon as I heard it was a woman, just how I felt, not even knowing a thing about his choice, I knew he did a big boo boo. My name is Debra and I have always loved the story about Deborah leading Israel to victory. I even saw Mt. Tabor when I was the wee age of twenty one years old.
My heart tells me when Deborah lead the army, she was side by side with the commander, because he wanted her there with him, side by side like a helpmeet.
Being a Vice President is not a side by side position, a VP makes huge decisions for the country. Deborah was not making decisions she was a prophetess, judging for God.
Speaking from my heart.
Debra
August 31st, 2008 at 2:09 pm
I don’t follow politics so am not speaking of this current VP candidate, but voting for a woman, even a woman with children, is not necessarily endorsing careerism for wives and mothers. A lot of Prairie Muffin types want to see female doctors for reasons of modesty, and most of those Docs they see probably have husbands and kids. I know it’s a long way from your local gyno’s office to the White House
but it’s a similar situation as far as whether the woman in question is tending her own hearth or tending to other matters outside her home/family for the majority of her time.
August 31st, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Very well written Carmon – thank you!
August 31st, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Palin is my new role model. A woman like the ones in the days of old…wife, mother, businesswoman, warrior for God. What a Proverbs 31 lady! Go Gov. Palin!
August 31st, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Thank you, Carmon. I have commented on this on another blog but you have given such a thorough, clear explanation of this! Thank you. I agree with you.
August 31st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
“Palin is my new role model. A woman like the ones in the days of old…wife, mother, businesswoman, warrior for God. What a Proverbs 31 lady! Go Gov. Palin!”
Yes, there is something in that passage about someone sitting in the gates, only it wasn’t her!
“Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.”
August 31st, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Oh, Carmon. I knew you would be the voice of reason when I stopped by to see if you had written about this latest travesty! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!! I wrote just the tiniest little bit about it on my blog and I’ve been slammed from Christian conservative readers, no less, and I have been shocked at how quickly all of these otherwise sane and reasoned Christians have taken to this idea of a woman vice president. I was beginning to think I was living an episode of The Twilight Zone. Thank you for pinching me so I could wake up from the nightmare of being ‘the only one’!
August 31st, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Thank you so much for this piece, Carmon. I passionately agree with you on these issues.
Love,
Ruthanne
August 31st, 2008 at 9:02 pm
You have some very interesting points. I do beg to differ from you on some of them. First, you are quite judgmental of Mrs. Palin and the work she does obviously under her husband’s approval. You may not like the way they run their family, but is it for you or anyone else to judge? No, she is not a stay at home mom, but even stay at home moms can get themselves in trouble by neglecting their family and their husbands, and sometimes they do it without realizing it (via home business, too much blogging, too much church work, etc., which is why I’m saying we shouldn’t judge). I believe firmly in the Titus 2 mandate, and I don’t know too many women who even would want to run for office, and I don’t think Mrs. Palin being the Governor of Alaska or the Vice President of the United States is going to make all Christian women run out of their homes and run for office. It might, however, stimulate some godly men to take their responsibilities more seriously. You and others have their problems with McCain and with Mrs. Palin, and there is nothing anyone could say to convince you otherwise. I think you and others have a grudge against Republicans, and think everything in an election season is one big political charade and that all candidates are disingenuous. I just have one question. What are you going to do when Mr. Obama gets elected President? Are you going to laugh and sneer and act like all is well? – What will you do when the leftist majority takes away your right to homeschool? What will you do when your taxes are raised so high you can barely afford to stay at home? What will you do when the leftists impose on your family a limit on the number of children you are allowed to give birth to? Or when the country gets taken over by another country because our Armed Forces are so undermined? Maybe the Republicans aren’t godly enough, maybe they aren’t promoting PRO FAMILY values the way you would like them to be displayed, and maybe your principles are so high you can never justify anything lower. They are far from perfect, but they are the only thing standing between you and President Obama. If that is OK with you and all those that think like you do, and if that does not threaten you in the least, then that may be what you get. Also, while I don’t believe Mrs. Palin is a prophetess like Deborah was, I do know that she is a civil leader which is what the Judges were back in the Old Testament.
August 31st, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Without sounding too conspiratorial let me just say that there is the chance that someday the nations of the earth unite under a single governmental body. Assume that will happen in next 60 years. To those who have decided to support the Deborah argument, how should I begin preparing my daughters in order that they may also someday be like Palin and possibly rule Earth? If they do happen to rule Earth will they still be able to submit to their husbands and fulfill the duties of a Godly wife without her “subjects” (the Bible certainly doesn’t mandate she stick to democracy) fearing that the are secretly being ruled by a hyper-patriarch? Final question, if Jesus returns during my daughter’s reign should she hand things off to Jesus or would that be the husbands job?
August 31st, 2008 at 9:58 pm
(sorry for no caps here-on my husband’s laptop:)
samantha-a woman as a full-time OB has to answer to “tending the hearth” issues. a woman VP has to answer to never being home with her children or supporting her husband personally as well as living in flagrant disharmony with the clear example of scripture, the clear examples of scripture being that woman was made for man, not the other way around; the call in the law of moses that men and their godly qualifications suit them for office (the hebrew word is explicit for male in such passages); the command of Paul that woman not hold positions of authority over men in the church; and the logical follow-through that, w/the husband as head of the wife in the home and God-gifted men as leaders in the church, it is fitting and proper that the Creator does not intend to turn the tables and have women govern the men in civil affairs.
debbie-how do “the circumstances” trump doctrinal precepts? could you define what you mean?
isn’t it faaaaaaascinating-how much women hate hate hate to hear that they are created to be the amazing, industrious, nurturing, intelligent, creative, resourceful, enterprising, loving, husband-influencing, home-centered counterparts to the male half of humankind? i mean- the vitriol at such a scathing proposition as the history of womankind in the home, influencing the affairs of humankind through the families they raise up and the husbands they powerfully influence (for good or evil),up until the 1970s, was right-oh, the blasphemy! the truth is, the home-how it’s chosen to be decorated, what’s cooked there, what’s budgeted for, the plans made for the family in it, the prayers made from it, the little and big ones loved there- has much more influence and power to mothers dedicated to it than is given credit. modern woman, educated from preschool to look down on the home and pursue “real” action outside of it, at the expence of being in the heart, and being the heart of, her home, has largely been influenced to believe in a bunch of hooey. you want palin to make the biggest difference? have her go home and dedicate her time to her family. for all the advancements in society, no one can really replace mom. ever. it’s time to wake up and restore glory of the call to the home. thanks, carmon, for your articulate part in doing so.
other than that, i think palin looks gorgeous and has a good level manner about her. i wouldn’t doubt that she’d make a good leader. it comes down to that basic question: what is woman created for? our modern society says that it is undefined and at the call of each woman. god’s word isn’t so unclear. the wonder is that we despise its directives so much, that being “keepers at home” is such a despicable idea….fascinating….a bunch of hooey, swalloed hook, line, and sinker. especially when you have someone like carmon dedicated to being at home serving her family, the so-called drudgiest of existence we’re taught, and you find a thriving, joyful, articulate woman running circles around the think-chats by most water coolers. when are we women going to wake up and call the feminist hooey ‘hooey!’? when are young women going to see and know that it’s awesome, exciting, sweet, and totally fulfilling to be the keepers of their own domestic enterprise? it’s great-take it from me-i’m there too, and i love it! carmon, maybe you should do a new entry asking moms with that “domestic vision” to post some of the wonderful things that are a part of being at home…
August 31st, 2008 at 10:24 pm
I disagree with your tone, your overarching point, and your political analysis. First, your tone is completely irreverent. Whatever you think about Hillary Rodham Clinton (and believe me, I’m no fan), calling names is rude, malicious, and childish. You lost me at that point, and I almost clicked off the article on that reason alone. But because Mrs. Chancey (a friend of mine) recommended it, I persevered to the end. And yet I still greatly disagree.
Yes, Palin was chosen because she is a woman (were she a man, with her same story, she’d have been– at most– passed over until 2012). She was also chosen, in part, because of her compelling story of pro-life in action. But she was also chosen because she is a tough “maverick” sort of politician, similar to McCain. She has a life-long history with hunting. She’s grown up with ethnic issues… and managed oil and gas and energy issues there in Alaska. For those who (like you) say he was just trying to manipulate evangelicals, think again. He could’ve chosen Huckabee. Or any number of other well-spoken pro-life candidates. Instead, he chose a woman who has lived a rich and diverse history that includes not only the life issue, but many important issues facing America today. On top of that, he chose someone who has a record (albeit a very short one) of taking career politicians to task and making a difference in her state.
Whether you support or oppose her, her basic life path is not going to change. She’ll still be a busy mom of five with a young baby with special needs.
Regardless, though, even if you disagree with everything I’ve written (which is likely), please change your tone for future writings. I find it incredible that evangelical Christians reading this can applaud your message and care not about an article that includes reading fortunes, bathroom humor, and referring to Hillary as a “witch”. Calling someone a “witch” is a low place to stoop to… even if you hold that it’s completely light-hearted joking (which it’s not). It’s rude, judgmental, and offensive.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:50 am
A sane voices on this issue…
Should Christians Support a Woman for the Office of Civil Magistrate
http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/ballot_box/should_christians_support_a_wo.aspx
Biblical Standards for Choosing Civil Magistrates
http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/ballot_box/biblical_standards_for_choosin.aspx
Daniel 2:19-22 tells us “Then Daniel praised the God of heaven and said: “Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are his. He changes times and seasons; he sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning. He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what lies in darkness, and light dwells with him.”
Matthew 10:28 states “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
The Proverbs also have a ton to say about what it means to be a righteous leader, how we must not fear the wicked nor seek to appease them by calling them righteous, etc…
September 1st, 2008 at 6:22 am
If you believe in common grace, which I am sure most of Carmon’s readers do, I assume you believe that a not-specifically-Christian government can rule well. It is good to promote the Biblical model of the family, and it doesn’t mean that model is dead if a woman is elected to high office. If she’s elected, she’s the person God wants there. Just because there are woman doing all kinds of jobs you think men should do, that does not mean either you or your daughters have to aspire to those jobs. Just because a woman might be VP or even president does not mean that automatically all daughters and wives will want to leave their home calling and follow her. Don’t you think you are training your daughters well enough?
September 1st, 2008 at 6:25 am
Carmon… I am literally in tears as I read this post. Thank you so very very much for writing these words that *need* to be said! When the news of Palin’s appointment first broke many of my dearest friends’ were crowing in exultation… and my words of concern were basically pooh-pooh’ed. I don’t need to express my feelings on this matter, because you, my dear, have expressed them much more cogently than I could ever hope to.
And to those who say that it is Palin’s choice to run her home and family the way that she and her husband deem fit, I respectfully disagree. When asked who would be caring for her children if elected to the governorship, Mrs. Palin stated that her husband would quit his job and stay home…. *without* first checking with her dh!(I’m apologize for not having a substantiating link for that, but I will locate one and repost with it later today) And all that aside, there is no way that anyone can convince me that the mother of a nearly new baby- especially one with a handicapping condition such as Down syndrome- is following God’s will by taking on a task such as running for the Vice Presidency.
God has told us the way He desires our homes to be run, and He knows best. Why do we feel the need to second guess, and twist His word in order to fit into our desire du jour? Let’s not be so terrified by the idea of a “liberal” ascending to the presidency that we throw away all that we know to be true.
Carmon, you are a treasure indeed. May the Lord richly bless you.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:23 am
Well, according to the latest headlines, perhaps I should have first asked, “Who’s going to be watching the teenagers?” :-O
September 1st, 2008 at 9:25 am
It would be nice if you remain quiet and dismantle this evil website.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:26 am
God have mercy on us. This woman has a 17 year old daughter who is pregnant out of wedlock. A breastfeeding, disabled infant and a 17 year old unwed mother, and we are supposed to vote for McCain/Palin in order to help her spend LESS time with her children? When will we stop being taken for fools?
September 1st, 2008 at 9:41 am
Let’s hope Carmon never remains quiet…the world would be much the poorer!
September 1st, 2008 at 11:08 am
At the risk of inviting an angry mob to my blog, I must say that I agree with you, Carmon. I felt a little sick hearing Dr. Dobson’s gushing. Very well said, much more eloquently than I could ever do, and so I am directing my little handful of readers to review your post. And I echo Diane’s and Samantha’s sentiments in stating that you are indeed a treasure, and I hope you never remain quiet! God bless you and your family.
September 1st, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Re: Deborah: please note that, although God called her to be a judge during a time when no man stood up to judge Israel, she was known as “the wife of Lapidoth” [Judges 4:4]. Furthermore, she was a keeper at home: “And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah …… and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.” [Judges 4:5] She wasn’t out gadding about, she was at home, and PEOPLE CAME TO HER HOUSE for judgment! I am SO SICK of people trying to make Deborah a feminist icon, when she was a godly woman whom God used under special circumstances for a special one-time only task!!! Nothing further is mentioned of Deborah after the victory over Jabin’s army.
September 1st, 2008 at 12:47 pm
molly with two mills~
I did not mean to indicate that circumstances trump doctrine, only that the gravity of these circumstances deserve prayer on our part as opposed to simply “arguing” doctinal points. Most Christians I know do not have a problem with Palin as V.P. They are not questioning whether or not a woman can serve as a civil magistrate. They have more of a problem with Obama as president. I’m not saying this is okay, it’s merely where people are at. In Arizona BOTH of the leading CONSERVATIVE candidates for state representative are women. What to do? Not many are asking my opinion. I have found arguing or debating points VF style is not very effective (for me anyway) It seems like either you see it or you don’t. Either you want to hear it or you don’t. Let’s see the fruit of women in leadership (before November 4th). What would be revealed would only confirm the truth of His Word. I am well aware that this could be judgement. Prayer is needed in this hour.
~debbie
September 1st, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I thought Carmon’s article was spot on and a great read.
First off I want to state that I am not a Democrat or an Obama supporter, but an independent conservative who almost always votes Republican, and in fact, was going to vote for Mr. McCain, up until Friday that is.
One of the posters seems to have fallen for the illusion that if you only vote Republican your rights and freedoms will remain intact, while Democrats will do everything in their power to usher in totalitarianism, and while I would typically agree with this philosophy far more often than not, this has simply not been the case in recent years as far as the Republicans protecting your freedoms go. I will not go in to any great detail about why because it is not the topic here, but under Mr. Bush and some other Republicans government and spending has expanded considerably and some very important freedoms lost!
Another poster stated something to the effect that if this woman becomes our VP that it was Gods will and what he must have wanted? I feel this to be about the same thing as stating that God must have wanted Bill Clinton in the White House due to his “high moral standards?â€
I have also noticed a few comments suggesting that the Palin nomination or other such similar nominations will not result in Christian women abandoning their homes and families in favour of pursuing traditional men’s occupations, and as long as daughters are raised toward family and home, there is less of a threat of this happening? I wouldn’t be so sure about that? Never underestimate the leftist influences or their ability to “sell†a successful feminist role model! Just look at the massive press this woman is receiving! One does not have to look too hard to see the current status of the American family and the effect that the success of feminism has had on it, and yes, this includes Christian families as well!
If we are to believe what we are told, this woman has to be the most flawless political candidate in U.S. history? Not buying it! Right from the beginning this woman simply bandied about too many pro-feminist statements and clichés that are all too typical of the left wing feminists such as Hillary Clinton!
September 1st, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Well, one thing that I can say for Sarah Palin that I haven’t seen from all of those gushing over voting for her…She freely admits to being a feminist.
I must admit that I believe McCain/Palin would be better than Obama/Biden but I could NOT bring myself to vote for them. Isaiah 3:12 indicates that women rulers are a judgment from God.
As for my people, children are their oppressors and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. Isaiah 3:12
September 1st, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I already read your post this morning (by way of a commenter on another blog who referred to yours) and I just found it as a link on LAF.
I agree with little that you’ve written. Moreover, your description of HC as the former “Wicked Witch of the White House” seems incongruent with Biblical teaching on kindness and having our spoken words like “apples of gold.”
Lastly, I checked out LAF and saw Matt Chancey’s blog in which he was championing his candidacy. Interestingly enough, he had a picture touting his conservative stance and it showed him posing with Phyllis Schafly. Doesn’t SHE work outside the home?
I went to post this and saw that the submit button says “Speak Kindly.” Perhaps you would do well to follow your own advice.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Carmon,
Oh boy, oh boy, you’ve really done it this time
. I’m probably missing some obvious points but if a girl agrees with you on most every point, (including the war), what should one do when all the options are lousy? Jezebel or Delilah?
By the way, I really like your descriptions of Hilary. Her polite gesturings are a thin veneer which barely covers up her humiliation and anger about having lost. I have an uneasy feeling that one of these days she’s just going to implode or something, sort of like that big fat purple sea witch in the Little Mermaind.
love your commentary,
Grace
September 1st, 2008 at 8:15 pm
I agree with you 100%, Carmon, and I am liberal leaning person myself. I was watching McCain’s choice carefully because I am still undecided about Obama. I wonder–whose tending the home fires? I agree with the above commentors–with a four-month old, special needs child and an (as yet) unwed teenage daughter pregnant, it seems like Gov. Palin’s focus should be on her family. What does this say about John McCain’s character and decision making capacities (or lack thereof) with this choice? I’m sad and disappointed that so many Godly male candidates (or even childless women or women finished with childrearing) were overlooked for the sake of a figurehead that met the right “check marks.” I’m even sadder that so many socially-conservative leaders in the US are fooled into thinking this a good thing, or that Gov. Palin represents a role model women should emulate.
I’ll admit to being a working mother. My husband, by his own wishes, stays at home with our son while I work in an office. It’s not ideal, but it is his desire and I am following his wishes by working. I *know* how conflicted working moms can be–I know I am. I rush out of the office at 5 PM, and limit any work at home to nights after our son sleeps or during naptime. Luckily, I do not have a very demanding job. But the Vice Presidency of the United States? I find it hard to believe that a woman, any woman (no matter what her support network) could be any less conflicted than I. Is this someone that should be governing?
As a Generation X woman, I never from the start believed that I could “have it all.” My response–I don’t WANT it all!! Who would? God gave men and women different roles to relieve each other of the burden! I look forward to a day when my husband and I can enjoy a return to a more traditional divison of labor. Until then, however, I reserve the right *not* to vote for McCain/Palin.
September 1st, 2008 at 8:29 pm
About Mrs. Palin’s daughter…I am very sorry for them to be going through what is a difficult family trial. It is no small thing to have a child get pregnant out of wedlock, and such a situation was once considered a shameful thing because it was once understood that sexual relations outside of marriage were always sinful, not a “mistake” like some Christian commentators are calling it. However, the precious baby that is conceived in that young girl’s womb now deserves life, and a father and mother (whom I do hope will be getting married, and repenting of their sin and receiving God’s free forgiveness). I am thankful that her family understands that abortion is an evil thing and that it’s not an option for them.
I am not going to make any comments about whether this situation is due to her mother and father’s neglect because of their busy lives. Perhaps. But young women and men from attentive Christian homes can also have rebellion problems. If anything, it’s just a reminder that it’s not wise for young people to be having romantic relationships without careful supervision and apart from proper commitment which would normally lead to marriage. Every parent needs to examine their own families to make sure they are properly training and guiding even their older children, and protecting their daughters. We ought to be praying for the Palins.
I don’t intend to take time arguing the points I made in this post. The links I gave cover anything I didn’t address, and I do have a busy life even if I am not running for office
. As for calling Hillary the Wicked Witch of the West, I stick by it, though Lady MacBeth is also appropriate. If I was characterized by such name-calling, then I think you all ought to take me to task, but it is rare on my part (though my detractors may be able to dredge up those few instances from the last 7 years and make it look like a common occurance), and not without biblical precedent for emphasis when referring to those who are so evil that they deserve no patience nor gentleness regarding their horrendous actions. Was Paul, who also urged restoring the repentant brother in meekness and gentleness, being a hypocritic potty mouth when he spoke this way of the Judaizers in Galatia who wanted to force circumcision on the Gentiles as a prerequisite for salvation?
That’s from The Message Bible, not a version which I would normally use, but to show the meaning of what he was saying, I picked it for it’s more modern usage, so we don’t miss Paul’s point. My husband, bless his heart, would put it more crudely to make it very clear, but I will refrain from saying it that way here. The point is, however, when a woman insists that ripping infants out of their mothers’ wombs is a right for all women that must not be infringed, and she is in a position of influence to officiate over the deaths of those millions of babies, then she doesn’t deserve gentleness, and definitely not “reverence.”
I will not use such “harshness” regarding Mrs. Palin and her family who appear to have a genuine faith in Christ and hold tenaciously to prolife beliefs, even though I disagree profoundly with them regarding their understanding of men and women’s roles in the home and in the civil realm. Like Paul in Galatians, however, I do not think it inappropriate to shake my head and wonder who has bewitched those foolish Christians who once held to the truth regarding those matters and so quickly abandoned it for a quick fix to a horrible problem.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Samantha noted that many women seek the professional services of female physicians for their treatment, and commented on the similar situation of women in the workplace and a woman vice president. You are right to draw that conclusion Samantha. It IS the same thing. Just because one CAN, doesn’t mean that one SHOULD. A woman is to be a keeper at home, serving her father until married at which time she serves as help meet to her husband. If she becomes orphaned as a daughter, or widowed as a wife, her family is to support her. If not her family, then the household of faith should step in to care for her. Under the oversight of the church elders, as an orphan, she would be adopted, as a widow, she would be encouraged to remarry. When a woman steps outside the home to assume (either full or partial) the responsibility of providing for the family, she places herself under the authority of a man(or another woman), not her father or husband. She may find herself in a position of authority over a man in the workplace. The positive response of so many in the Christian community toward Mrs. Palin’s candidacy has revealed that the Bible is neither read thoroughly nor considered important enough to obey by many who claim Christ to be their Saviour and Lord. It is certainly a sign of the coming judgement on our nation.
September 2nd, 2008 at 6:30 am
While I agree it is sad that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant, I too had a daughter become pregnant out of wedlock, and I’m a stay at home mom! I am not a feminist and believe womem, if possible, should choose to be at home tending to those matters. But, each family has the freedom to choose and obviously the Palin’s have chosen for the past 20 years to be a 2 career family as do many other conservative christians! We must pray and trust in God to put the right team in the oval office for the next 4 years, pray for our troops, etc. The debate needs to be over the issues and our nations future, not just the fact “she’s a WOMAN”. Who can be the best president? There are no guarantees that Obama will live the next 4 years either, are you comfortable with Biden? I know I’m not! Christians get on your faces and pray for our country!
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:51 am
Dearest Carmon,
Could it be that Governor Palin is, in fact, obeying her husband by accepting McCain’s invitation to join him on the Republican ticket? Could it be that Governor Palin entered the workplace at her husband’s behest? If so, then it could be none of our business
to judge her.
Because I’m a Christian, I place the words of Christ and his disciples over the words of the Law and the Prophets, which Jesus fulfilled (Thank You, Jesus!). Paul writes: “Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 6:9-10). Thus, while saying something nasty and untrue about someone might keep an individual out of heaven, Paul doesn’t list working outside the home as something that would bar a woman from heaven, and certainly, he could have done so.
Paul advises women “to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands” (Titus 2). As far as I can tell, Governor Palin meets all of Paul’s advice. I haven’t visited her home, but I’m guessing that she is responsible for keeping it although she might hire someone to do the physical labor involved. Paul doesn’t say be “solely a keeper at home–and don’t you dare do anything else or it’s H-E-double hockey sticks for you, young lady!” From ancient times to today and beyond, women have contributed to their families and to public life through the work of their minds and hands. If God’s word is being disrespected, it is not by Governor Palin.
In the passage you quoted, Paul clearly references the church, not the workaday world. If a female were up for a leadership position in my church, I wouldn’t support her.
I find it ironic that you are a businesswoman and you have a public role by authoring a blog to share your political opinions, but you judge another woman for being a public person and you use God’s word to do so. When you write for a public audience, you have authority over male readers (author=authority), and you consider that a no-no for other women.
If you want to criticize someone’s child for being a sinner, you might consider concentrating your efforts on Joe Biden’s son, Hunter.
Carmon, if I had to wait for a perfect candidate, I’d never vote. Although she is a human and, therefore, imperfect, I’d ten times rather have Governor Palin managing the country than Joe Biden in the event that their respective running mates went to meet the Maker of us all. I cannot waste my vote on some third-party candidate, and I cannot vote for Barack “I don’t want my daughters punished with a baby” Obama. I join my prayers with those of Debbie and all the other ladies who are praying for our country.
Your Sister in Jesus,
Cynthia
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Well written Carmon. I especially enjoy your political posts.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Even when all the (legitimate) arguments against Palin are stripped away, the question still remains:
How can ANY Christian vote for a man who believes it is acceptable to slaughter a child, born or preborn?
Explain to me how this could possibly be PLEASING to our holy, righteous God?!?
The blood of innocent children runs freely through our land and pro-life sidewalk counselors are BEGGING fellow believers to be a life-saving presence at the abortion mills.
CHURCH, WAKE UP!! YOU’RE ASLEEP IN THE LIGHT!!
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:54 pm
LOVED your article and just wanted to remind everyone we still have a godly, pro-life, pro-family, Constitutional scholar, Reagan statesman, who also happens to be a MAN, running for President. His name is Dr. Alan Keyes.
http://www.selfgovernment.us/aip/
September 2nd, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Hmm, Cynthia, you did it very politely, which must mean it’s all right, but I think you just called me a judgmental hypocrite, disrespectful of God’s Word, and a slanderer who is in danger of “H-E-double-hockey sticks.” Anna once babysat some sweet little girls who were very well-trained by their parents to use the most polite language, and they got very good at fighting with one another while speaking in dulcet tones and using “kind” words, LOL!
I don’t care how obedient she may be to her husband in her pursuit of magisterial duties, you cannot get away from the fact that Sarah Palin calls herself a feminist, in her first speech she thanked Hillary and Geraldine Ferraro for helping shatter the “glass ceiling,” and she is going to be leaving an infant and other young children in the care of others while she pursues one of the highest offices of the land. It is very short-sighted of Christians who have fought against the inroads of anti-family feminist thinking to suddenly adopt the methods and mindset of feminists when they have an alluring carrot dangled in front of them. If you click through any of my links, however, you will find that John McCain is NOT prolife, as Ruthanne points out, and political history, which my friends are woefully ignorant of, points to the fact that evangelicals have repeatedly been puppets of politicians who promise them the moon during election season then ignore them once in office. We heard the same old, same old arguments four years ago and eight years ago when the current president was running, with little follow-through on the social issues about which we are all concerned.
BTW, I have no authority over anyone here, Cynthia, and that is a red herring in light of the great authority Mrs. Palin will potentially be wielding over many men, including her husband, if she should become the “Leader of the Free World.” This is primarily a place of encouragement for Christian women, including the encouragement to take God’s Word at face value and be obedient to it, in both the Old and New Testaments, as a means of our sanctification after we are saved by His grace. God’s Holy inerrant Word applies to ALL of life, not just our relationships within the church. If your logic held, then we have no authority to say abortion is evil, as the only place the Bible speaks directly to the life of the unborn child is in the Old Testament law (or Psalm 139), and we could only apply it to those in the church.
As for businesswoman, I mail out an order of books about once a week, from my home (well, my husband does let me drive to the post office, too
). I don’t have anything against women having home businesses, but not sure I deserve that title.
September 2nd, 2008 at 5:46 pm
I am curious as to why you didn’t allow my first comment.
Is John McCain personally not pro-life or politically not pro-life?
I also find it curious that your title is so similar to this title, two days prior to your posting:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/dear_margo/20080828/en_dm/margo_howard20080828;_ylt=Ani4hEF.PGo_GWdnCtcOMHq2GL8C
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I think I was the one who said that if this woman becomes VP, then it is God’s will. In His word, God tells us that He raises up princes and brings them down. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t vote your conscience (or not vote at all, like me). It means that even people we think should not be in office for (insert reason here) are there for God’s Own reasons. And we can’t assume we know what those reasons are.
I am a person who distrusts governments (including the American government) as much as anyone on earth…yet I have moved beyond fear and worry by accepting that God knows what He’s doing. That’s why I don’t vote. I used to get so riled up about what was happening in politics that I could not rest in faith. I’m not saying that people who put an evil ruler in power have no culpability, just as those who crucified the Lord were responsible even though they were God’s instruments in His eternal purpose. But ultimately, whoever is VP is there because God wants them there and we might not know why.
I also think we will differ on this issue depending on whether we have a reconstructionist mindset.
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I am becoming incredibly exasperated with so-called “conservatives” who want to redefine conservative with every turn of the tide. I fully agree with all of your arguments, apart from the detail of current-day prophecy (which I believe still exists, albeit it frequently abused). It is my firm belief that a woman – particularly a married woman with children – in a large public office like this is inherently NOT conservative.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Just to clarify ~ My use of the word “legitimate” in my comment (#43) was to *affirm* the things Carmon has written about — not to imply I thought some of her arguments were valid and others weren’t. After I posted I realized the use of the word could cause my comment to be understood as the latter.
Carmon, thanks for your compassionate, humble response about Bristol and the subject of young ones in rebellion. You’re right. We need to be praying for the Palins, and especially for young Bristol.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:02 am
So, according to Cynthia you can be a Titus 2 woman without even being at home. Who knew?!
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Christine Read-good food for thought…
My post was written way too late and I totally apologize for the ranting tone(!).
It still comes down to that basic question though-how does one rightly divide God’s Word in our egalitarian society?…Is it ever right in the Lord’s eyes that a woman steps into the public sphere, leaving her own “hearth”, because there is no practical good alternative in civil government? Do we vote purely on principle and trust all-powerful God to “show His power on behalf of those who trust in Him” in this election and what happens in the next four years? Or do we lean on our own ‘obvious’ understanding that we’ve got only one viable choice, though it’s half-liberal, to prevent worse policies from having an open liberal voted in?…
September 4th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
I found this link through the stay-at-home-daughters blog. I figured it was about time to start following politics for a couple of months. About the only time I pay any attention is during elections. The rest of the time I’m just disgusted by all the gossip and scandals.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that I really appreciated your comments. I knew absolutely nothing about Palin until a few minutes ago. Thank you for standing up for the high calling that God has for women, and pointing out from Scripture the issues of having a woman for a VP.
Sarah
September 5th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
As a full time mama of 10 beautiful children ~~ and yes it is a “full time” job…. I must say in all honesty Mrs. Palin will have her hands full with this new appointment, and yes I do see victory for McCain & Palin.
I do not believe that it is the family’s best interest to have mama gone. I do believe motherhood is a full time job. Oh it is.
With that said — I have read all the passages about women in the Bible, and I must say ladies, I am so dissapointed in my Christian sisters!
I have been all over blog land and all I am reading is “tisk – tisk”…. ladies, this is not becoming of us , and to be honest it is judging Mrs. Palin and the Lord, OUR Lord told us not to judge, lest we be judged.
I go on record to say that I would not do as Mrs. Palin is doing — but I am not Mrs. Palin.
Ladies let us remember to not taut one passage of scripture at the exclusion of many others where we are told to *not* judge one another.
REmember the adulturous woman who was to be stoned to death by the Jews…..
Are we to do the same with Mrs. Palin????
I am so dissapointed by what I am reading in the blogs and Christian community.
So sad and so ashamed that we would attack another sister in the faith.
Do I agree with Mrs. Palin’s choice to be VP? No. I would not do so.
Do I believe the bible says women are to be at home, chaste and discreet? Yes, I do.
But I also believe ladies that we are NOT to Judge — and that means no stone throwing.
May God forgive us for what we are doing here, and across the internet on other blogs.
In Christ,
Gloria
September 5th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Hi Carmon,
I enjoy your blog. I just had to tell you that it is my understanding Mrs. Palin worships at a Lutheran church. My pastor who lived in the same town as she told me that. For what it is worth.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Dear Gloria,
According to the Bible there are two kinds of judging…the kind that is hypocritical and does not apply the same judgment to oneself, and the kind that is discerning, weighing and deciding based on what is right and what is wrong.
If we never “judged” anything, then we would not be able to say abortion is wrong. We would not be able to criticize Obama or Hillary because both of them claim to be Christians and are members of churches. We would not be able to ever rebuke one another, something we are commanded by God’s word to do.
By your standard of judging, you should not have judged me for my opinions here, right? I don’t mind appropriate rebukes, and I know I sometimes deserve them, but if you read carefully what I’ve written here, I don’t think I have been unkind or “judgmental” of Mrs. Palin, just disagreeing with her choices as a Christian woman and self-proclaimed feminist. In your comment, you seem to disagree with her, too. As for what other blogs have written that might be inappropriate, I am not getting into arguments elsewhere, but I do feel free to express an opinion on my own website.
More on judging from our Lord, speaking through the apostle Paul:
“But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.” (1 Cor 2:15)
“Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?” (1 Cor 6:2)
“Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?” (1 Cor 6:3)
September 7th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Carmon,
I hope you can bear discussion on the issue. If this is too long, feel free to edit it down or something. I admit I’m having some fun with this, so I beg your indulgence.
I came across this post: http://dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=5837 on Doug Wilson’s blog. Many of his arguments make a great deal of sense, though I am speaking only in general terms, *not* in terms of this particular set of candidates.
I admit I have been wondering about Deborah. I know she has been pulled out of context by far too many women to further personal ambition, but this doesn’t mean we should run the other way, as I’ve seen many in the Protestant community do over Mary. She was legitimately given her title by God as the authority at the time. Has He shut the door today for ever giving another title of authority to a woman, or is it possible there are unique circumstances where He could choose to do so still without any inconsistency? I’m not discussing being a prophet, only a position of authority that is not directly prohibited by God. I felt Pastor Bret McAtee arguments were too broad. I get his argument and perhaps that’s a very wise interpretation, but biblical reference to the norm or even to the ideal, is not the same as prohibition.
We can certainly argue if general principles lead us to believe it is unwise, just as we can argue about whether a woman should work under the authority of another man when married, be a church choir director over men, etc. I’m only talking those things where a specific realm of woman’s authority isn’t necessarily clearly prohibited. Wilson suggests civil government was not a direct prohibition and Isaiah 3:12 does not apply as a command here, so is there more? Remember, I’m also generally speaking, not “Palinly” speaking.
Finally, let me muse over Ester. I realize she didn’t carry true authority, but she had a voice as a woman’s voice would make all the difference, and a man’s would not be heard. I also understand how she did not place herself there and a woman running for office has, but in our society there are areas where a woman will carry more weight because of the lack of respect given to men, causing a woman to feel moved to do something about it. It is a shame on the society that this is so, but it is nevertheless, so. It’s not always the case where men won’t lead, but I have seen personally areas where even the most righteous man will not be given an ear in the way a woman would be due to our society’s state.
Me? I personally think we are, in a Roman’s kind of way, under judgment in that we as a society are being given up by God to our sins. I hope I’m wrong. Perhaps that’s why a woman was applauded in Palin’s position, and a man of her same convictions would have no effect whatsoever among the general population. Is letting a woman rule causing judgment, or is the need for a woman to rule because of the state of men due to the judgment?
September 7th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Hi, Cheryl…I don’t have time right now (or inclination) to argue this too much, or discuss it
, but I will try to address what you say soon. I think there are a lot of flaws in Wilson’s thinking out loud and the Deborah argument gets way more leverage in this situation than it should. I may be able to post some quotes that relate directly to that tomorrow night. I hope!
September 8th, 2008 at 7:07 am
Oh, there is no hurry! Part of me is thinking out loud, but if you have further information to add to Wilson’s argument, I’m happy to hear it. Your experience in deciphering such things biblically is greater than mine.
September 12th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Not even a year ago, I would have agreed with all your critics and held this woman as a role model. I was your typical feminized, kind of woman. I was one who could have “Had it All”, and thank God, he turned me around.I gave “It All” up and finally understood how much more glorious, joyfull and more fullfilling God’s way actually is. So now to look at how I was before and to hear your negative critics just makes me want to slump into a ball of tears and shame for not getting it before. Thank you for all of you who speak of God’s truth! So my biggest question then is this- “Do we not have any men for whom you can vote for, and if so, why aren’t we voting for them? Do christians think their vote for a God fearing man will be a wasted vote?, (thinking he is in minority so we have to be on the defensive side of doing damage control for the lesser of two evils?) Or do they not realize how big of a segment they are in the realms of voting- that they can be the offensive side?
I recently listened to Doug Phillips CD entitled Principles of the ballot box- through Vision forum ministries. Wow! Deals with both voting and the Deborah issue in a way where there leaves basically no room for furthur arguement.Very highly reccommended!!! The bible really does teach on every subject clearly… and as some would like to refute, I might add- The BiBle, the very words of God- are not open to debate!
September 12th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Thank you for this excellent post.
When I first saw Sarah Palin on T.V., my initial thought was, “Oh, she’s pretty!” But as with any intelligent adult, I was then immediately interested in deeper considerations; who was she, why was she on the evening news, and what was her story?
Unfortunately, it seems that mainstream Christianity is so enamored that they can’t see beyond the excitement over this woman to the deeper, Biblical issues at stake.
I’m sad for Mrs. Palin; I wonder if she will one day look back over her life and question what four or eight years as VP took from her precious children.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Oh You have said what I have wanted to say…I attempted to so so in a post, but it was more of a rant than an eloquently thought out manuscript such as this. Thank you to your honesty and you courage to stand FIRM on the word of God! Kudos to you sis.